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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:09:00 -
[1] - Quote
Are you ******* insane?
Not only is this a complete and utter waste of time and resources but it's badly thought out to boot.
I have a character with all racial frigate and cruiser skills at 5 as well as destroyers and battlecruisers 5. Are you honestly going to make me train 4 racial bc and destroyer skills to 5 to have access to the same ships and get the same performance? Seriously?
No bs 5 req for caps? **** off. If you go ahead with this are you going to give us all back a month of training time? Why not let everyone start with bc 4, make it take 1 week to get to min bs 4 then give everyone a free carrier for training the skill; hyperbolous I know...but what a funny coincidence that caps requiring only bs lvl 4 is an un-expected side-effect from trying to "maintain progression consistency"...yeah people have been crying about this for 8 years. 
T2 skill progression; personally I always liked it, imo it actually gives you a nice steady progression which forces you to try different classes you otherwise might never have looked at. You say having to train assault ships > heavy assault ships > command ships is redundant; I say it's an elegant system.
So far this seems to be Eve online: Infernally badly thought out patch.
As far as the so-called benefits listed at the end of the blog: ships in need of hp and slots will still need them after you bugger around with skills and tier concepts. Balancing that needs doing won't be done by these changes, is possible now and will still be possible afterwards; likewise looking at a range of ships and seeing if there's one missing....there have been threads on those subjects for years.
I'm actually quite worried that someone green-lit this proposal as a valuable way to spend manpower.
[Yes I'm a bitter vet knee-jerk posting] |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Soundwave wrote:The Economist wrote:Are you ******* insane? Not only is this a complete and utter waste of time and resources but it's badly thought out to boot. I have a character with all racial frigate and cruiser skills at 5 as well as destroyers and battlecruisers 5. Are you honestly going to make me train 4 racial bc and destroyer skills to 5 to have access to the same ships and get the same performance? Seriously? No bs 5 req for caps? **** off. If you go ahead with this are you going to give us all back a month of training time? Why not let everyone start with bc 4, make it take 1 week to get to min bs 4 then give everyone a free carrier for training the skill; hyperbolous I know...but what a funny coincidence that caps requiring only bs lvl 4 is an un-expected side-effect from trying to "maintain progression consistency"...yeah people have been crying about this for 8 years. T2 skill progression; personally I always liked it, imo it actually gives you a nice steady progression which forces you to try different classes you otherwise might never have looked at. You say having to train assault ships > heavy assault ships > command ships is redundant; I say it's an elegant system. So far this seems to be Eve online: Infernally badly thought out patch. As far as the so-called benefits listed at the end of the blog: ships in need of hp and slots will still need them after you bugger around with skills and tier concepts. Balancing that needs doing won't be done by these changes, is possible now and will still be possible afterwards; likewise looking at a range of ships and seeing if there's one missing....there have been threads on those subjects for years. I'm actually quite worried that someone green-lit this proposal as a valuable way to spend manpower. [Yes I'm a bitter vet knee-jerk posting] the post above yours
As pointed out by others that needs to be emphasised heavily because it's not the message that comes across. Also all my other complaints still stand, I think this is a terrible waste of time and focus. If you have to do all this to achieve a negligible change to a subjectively smoothly working system then imo you're doing something wrong.
Also you say the aim is "if you could fly it yesterday you'll be able to fly it tomorrow"; well the blog talks about reimbursing skill points, and it talks about racial bc skills. Will the reimbursed skills from bc 5 be enough to instantly put all 4 racial bc skills to 5? If it's not I get screwed; if it is then it's not going to be uniformly fair unless you come up with a system of varying the sp's given per person based on how many racial cruisers they had at 5 or something similar. Just all seems needless. |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Thrice distilled, oak-barrel aged post:
Why?
Just....why?
If you want to balance ships....balance ships. |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hitokiri Battoesai wrote:Luscius Uta wrote:Ethino wrote:So you're basicly telling me that i just wasted 26days to train for a Thanatos for NOTHING?   No, learn to read, you'll still keep your Gallente Battleship trained to V with all its beneftis apllied to Gallente battleships you fly. Unless you trained it to V just so you can get in a Thanny, in which case you made a bad decision of spending 30 days of training just to have a slightly better Carrier than other races can offer. I also wish I trained projectile turrets instead of lousy hybrids, but guess what, I have to stick with them now and I have to consider myself lucky because CCP made hybrids less sucky with Crucible. I would be happier if they reimbursed my skill points, but that doesn't mean my skillpoints put into hybrids are wasted. Training skill like Astrometic Acquisition to V is a waste, training any weapon or ship skill to V isn't. Wow You did not understand his statement at all. I have a cap pilot also, and there is no way I would have trained BS 5 on 2 races if I did not have to. My cap char never touches a BS. So everyone should get there lvl 5 BS sp back. If they want it there after the update they can put it back, but do not make people that already have cap chars suffer because of this change!
Yep, will be a lot of people in this situation. Another reason why this is uneccessary and poorly thought out. |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ntrails wrote:Has anyone got confirmation of whether they will be properly balancing headlights across the racial offerings? The current imbalance is disgraceful.
Too long have our headlights languished un-loved; enquiring minds must know!! |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
12
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Posted - 2012.03.06 19:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
Why not put all this time and effort into actually re-balancing those neglected ships and filling those tier holes which have been endlessly discussed for nigh on the last 8 years if that's what, in the end, this is all about?
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
13
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Posted - 2012.03.06 20:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:Svennig wrote:Akelorian wrote:CCP Soundwave to Goons: Herp Derp BS4 for Capitals
CCP Soundwave to Eve: Yea we ruining your game like promised Honestly, I just don't know how I feel about this. I'm not sure how much the BS V requirement deters people from caps. For me, it was just something that needed to be done - it didn't stop me and, as it was on a dedicated alt, it wasn't as if I could have trained something else. I'm not sure how much I'm bothered about BS IV for caps. It changes years of everyone training this skill to get into capital ships, so now its changed to a much quicker process to make capital/supercapital alts and or mains that in my opinion is the dumbest change thats listed here. But this just means that the alt is, what, 30 days quicker? I mean what's that in a carrier skillplan which (if done right) takes a hell of a long time and the racial BS skill is one of the smallest parts? Surely all this will do is get more newbies into carriers, and that's good for people who want to gank them? For anyone else (for example, goonswarm as you've mentioned), this turns a year skillplan into a 330 day skillplan. That doesn't seem to be terrible. Rationally, I'm ok with it. But something in the back of my mind does say that BS IV isn't right, but I can't rationalise it so it's probably not sensible.
Aside from any other concerns; Id say for me it's more that bs V for caps is and should be a mental barrier and a bit of a milestone for your progression in the game. Moving up into them should take a bit of consideration, a bit of agonising about investing the time in pre-reqs etc. [it also has a bearing on alt accounts and capital proliferation as well since, I for one, if this were to go through would very rapidly get 6 previously noob cyno/utiity alts in carriers whereas currently bs V is too much of an investment, especially when plex prices are rising and every sp spent on an account is a precious commodity for me to make them cross that training hurdle into a new area of specialisation.] |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
14
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
Val Vherosan wrote:
But the real question is if this is really, really the best you can do CCP? While the player base is screaming for the next Apocrypha do you honestly think this is the best way to spend your precious development time?
Wondering that myself.
There are only a limited number of teams with a limited amount of devs and their time is precious; we understand that different people have different areas of expertise and that not everyone can balance ships, or work on lag, or fiddle with the engine etc....but is this really the best way a portion of that valuable time can be invested?
Are you running so short on things to do that you need to make more work for yourselves, and not just more work, but something that's going to wind up being a big headache and require a needlessly complex fix to maintain the status quo for little to no actual payoff? Is the tier system really the only, or at least main, thing that caused AF balancing, for example, to take so long? |
The Economist
Logically Consistent
16
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Posted - 2012.03.06 21:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ruri Atreides wrote:Dearest CCP
1. Why are you trying to change something that isnt broken
2. Having the ability to fly every sub cap ship in the game has taken me YEARS of paying for this game so anything that may jeprodize that does not get my vote.
3. I really dont want to pay for the clone grades that would be required for having 4 BC 5 skills.
.
Good point, hadn' t thought about that. If the new racial bc skills for example are the same tier as the existing one then people could feasibly be boosted up into new clone levels....and they do get expensive. (not sure how much of a concern it really is though since they would inevitably reach that new clone level before long without the changes anyway)
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The Economist
Logically Consistent
18
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Posted - 2012.03.07 00:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Zaxix wrote:Creat Posudol wrote:Zaxix wrote:Since 99% of all comments are about SP reimbursement, it sounds like your core idea is getting indirect approval.
As to BS V for capital ships, will you also be lowering the Racial Industrial V requirement for freighters? Or any of the level V skill requirements for jump freighters? Looking at the progressions in the dev blog (and not having evemon at work), I'm not clear on whether training times and SP amounts for freighters/jump freighters in general will be going up, down, or staying the same. While it may have always been the case, I was surprised to see dreads took less time to get into than a jump freighter--that seemed odd to me.
What about the jump freighter skill? It's not race specific. Will you be altering that line as well? Can you afford to reimburse me for some SERIOUS skill point totals? On what basis would those points be awarded? The current discussion seems to be "I can fly all races now, so I should get skill points for all of them when the time comes." Well, I can fly all jump freighters now... Jump Freighters will continue to require Level 5 because they are T2 (all T2 require now and will according to the devblog continue to require Level 5). The Question about freighters is relevant though (I personally don't care as I have the prerequisites). I personally think they should continue to require Level 5 as they are a significant step up from their "skill predecessor". There should be SOME commitment. It already only takes about a month to get into one anyway... Actually, it doesn't require a freighter V skill. Racial freighter 4 is all that is required. There are other level 5 skills required, but they aren't quite the same progression as other ships. http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Nomad for example
I guess if bs V is being removed from the capital ship pre-reqs solely to maintain the continuity of t1 tiers having a lvl4 hull req and t2 lvl 5; then it would follow that racial freighter 5 is going to be needed for jump freighters.
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